RE: The new back to work programme in conjunction with the Jobcentre Plus!
FUNDED BY SEETEC - Employment Training CLICK HERE to visit their site
I was sent home from the first induction for being late. I was late by 60 seconds then made to wait in reception for 10 minutes to be told I arrived too late and to go home, but don't worry my benefits won't be affected this time. I was easily on time for my second attempt at this induction, and that didn't start till 10 minutes after the allocated time, which they allow in case any one was late. On my return after the induction to see my personal advisor, I again was made to wait in reception, again making me late and again being told with a annoyed hint in her words, that if I am late again, I could be sanctioned and that next time just to walk straight through after signing in. How was I suppose to know that when the building is full of coded door locks? From that appointment I was given 4 more new appointments all for the same allocated morning time over the next month. Two of these appointments was to sit at a computer and do a job search for 4 hours. Something I can easily do at home, but it seems I am of an age that I can not be trusted to do so without assistance, in case I might not be able to use my own PC and injure myself! After attending the first of these new appointments, I received a letter from Boltonwise stating a change in 1 of these appointments to a later time in the afternoon. With this new time set firmly in my mind, on the day of my next appointment, I am merrily getting ready with everything prepared to attend it. But shortly before dinner time on this day, I recieved a call from a young, disgruntaled lady who again with a annoyed hint and slightly condescending tone, asked me why I had not attended the appointment set for that morning to do a job search. Being very confused, I asked her as politely as I could to hold on the line whilst I shot downstairs to find the letter stating the new time. To my own shock the mistake was on my part as I had got the day wrong of the time change. Being as it was a genuine mistake on my part and as I had every intention of going to the appointment, the woman's tone on the phone did change slightly and I mean slightly to a more polite posture. Unfortunately, this young woman had already sent the sanction before even speaking to me and as the wheels had already been turned, after speaking to her and my own advisor at Boltonwise, they told me I had to speak to the people at the job centre to try and stop it. As it is they who stop the payments. Now, 3 phone calls later and the frustration of going in circles with those at the job centre saying speak to your advisor at Boltonwise and visa versa, thankfully, to a lovely adviser at the job centre who understood perfectly what I was saying, put a big note on the system to say don't suspend payment to this person. Like I explained, who in their right mind would purposely get sanctioned and a possible suspension in money 1 week before Christmas? One week into the new year, the 3rd appointment was kept at the later time to sit down at a pc and do a job search on the internet for 4 hours. A letter arrives on my door from the kind people at jobseekers stating that since I failed to attend the Boltonwise program, I will be suspended from payment for 2 weeks. Does not sound long, middle of winter with no money to heat your house or feed yourself and payments received fortnightly. That turns 2 weeks without payment into a month! Again, I make calls asking for explanations, going in circles just to end up with my only option left to appeal the decision, and that can take a month or longer if successful, or further still to court! I personaly went to the Jobcentre to pick up the right form for the appeal and after filling it out, I personally returned it to the jobcentre for them to check and send it through to the appeals dept. But, and again its a big but, they said to me in a pretty confused state they should not be doing this, it is Boltonwise who should be sorting this out! They do not even have the proceedures anymore for appeals of this nature, it's all in Boltonwise's hands. On the day of induction the sales man at Boltonwise, who does his pitch very well, when questioned on this subject by others who have been through it before with them, stated that they do not make the decision to suspend anyone, all they do is inform the people who pay the benefits, and they don't want to purposely stop anyone's money! But in the words of the Jobcentre advisor who took my appeal form, it's a bit naughty of them to say that. Now how is all this helping me back to work exactly? Furthermore, my head is so battered by it all, I may as well be back in prison!
By a very angry and confused man! ( via email )
BOLTONWISE
I have just read this post via a link on Twitter. I feel compelled to reply, because I too have had similar problems at this company. Firstly, I begrudge being spoken to like a moron by some advisor half my age who has not had any life experience. Secondly, I was suppose to apply for an handful of jobs a week. Jobs that don't exist or companies that are reluctant to employ ex-offenders. Last but not least, I would just like to ask anyone how much by law does the UK allow someone to live on? Good luck with your appeal and I hope this issue is resolved quickly for you.
ReplyDeleteNext time you go to this disorganised mental asylum.. ask your advisor if she can ring Forest Bank Prison to see if there are any vacancies.. vacancies for beds!!! Because this kind of service is enough to make you want to stick your hand out and stop the next sweat-box to jump on the buggar!!! I have heard other people talk about these crap back to work programs and it's all a big farce. I reckon it's a tax thing because some big companies are funding these so called charities that claim to help people back in to work. Where is the work? The best I can do at the moment is work for an agency which is miles away from my home, but at least its 3 days work... better than a kick in the teeth!!! As for suspending your money.. some fu*king charity these lot are!!!!
ReplyDeleteThey sound like ********* probation officers.
ReplyDeleteBoltonwise are charitable status? And they welcome people through their doors who are suffering hardship and are struggling financially on benefits. Yet they suspend someone's benefit due to a genuine mistake? Disgusting!
ReplyDeleteI'm not at all familiar with this organisation but a few things stand out from what you have written. First of all it appears to be very disorganised and contradictory: what you do today you don't do tomorrow and what you're told today is different tomorrow. It also seems they treat those they are supposed to assist as children who should be chastised when they make a mistake. This is not productive in developing a relationship between a provider (organisation) and a client (yourself). In fact I question whether this would be productive in any scenario.
ReplyDeleteSecondly, anyone can make mistakes about time and dates but those who have been inside seem to be held to higher account when this happens. When inside, there are very few official dates and times that need to be remembered. This difference between being inside and out is one of the subtle ways in which reentry can be a difficult process. In my opinion this is something they should be aware of.
Finally, with all the conflicting information received and with payments suspended (no matter for how long) it is not surprising that you say about being back inside. As it was explained to me, being inside is a lot simpler, less complicated and things are often more black and white than they are on the outside.
I agree with Kate. Times and dates can indeed confuse us all and genuine mistakes concerning these do happen. What beggars belief is, ( after looking at the boltonwise website) that this organisation claims to pride itself on 'helping' individuals. Even vulnerable ones. Yet this gentleman's post tells us a completely different story altogether. Would any charitable status organisation leave someone without heating in winter? It seems that boltonwise do exactly that!
ReplyDeleteI'm with everyone on this!!! This is disgusting!!! Charitable status my ass!!! A charitable status org is supposed to help people with hardship - not make it worse!!! Write to their funders and slate them!!!
ReplyDeleteBev xxxxxx
What a joke lol! So what's happening here is - this Org is being funded to intentionally make people worse off?????? Fair enough if people don't turn up for appointments because they can't be bothered, but some people make genuine mistakes. sounds like a load of crap if you ask me and I hope the guy gets his benefit reinstated ASAP. x
ReplyDeleteThis is exactly why some people revert back to committing crime. Food prices and the cost of living has escalated and yet some so called charity suspends someone's benefits? You can bet that the silly cow who suspended it lives with mummy and daddy and has practically no life skills whatever! GIVE THIS MAN A BREAK AND UN-SUSPEND HIS MONEY BOLTONWISE!!!!!!
ReplyDeleteIt's a disgrace, but this guy isn't alone I'm afraid. Work Program referrals are the biggest load of tripe going. I personally know someone who had his job seekers allowance suspended for pretty much the same reason as the guy in this post. His benefit was suspended and they advised him to go for a crisis loan, which is still Government money may I add, and because the law states that a person has to live off x amount of pounds per week, they had to give him the crisis loan. Crazy isn't it? But then the Government and those in power aren't a full shilling, so life in the UK is somewhat confusing. My question is, if charities suspend someone's benefit payment, then the funding they receive to support people should be withdrawn, right? Because if I donate money, say for example to a homeless charity, which claims it will be used for food and people weren't being fed, that means in my vocabulary that I am being ripped off doesn't it? So therefore, why would an organisation ( charity status ) be entitled to funding to assist and help people in their communities to find work and better their life's, when, when a simple honest mistake is made, press a button and suspend someone's benefit? Why would a charity do this to someone when the current economic climate is as grim as it is? How can you actively seek work and phone companies, buy newspapers and pay for your internet connection when tossers like this decide to suspend your money? It sounds rather bent if you ask me. I too hope this guys money situation is sorted out soon. Brilliant blog by the way! :-)
ReplyDeleteMy benefit was sanctioned last week because I forgot to bring my dairy sheet in that shows I have been looking for work. I have no money and I will be shoplifting at weekend to eat. I am past caring and pis*ed off with these pri*ks who stop peoples money for a small mistake.
ReplyDeletehttp://unlawfulsanctions.org.uk/
ReplyDeleteCopy and paste the link above which is all about unlawful sanctions - Boltonwise is funded by a company called Seetec - Seetec may have some money for this gentleman? maybe a few quid for some cash whilst the UK reaches minus conditions? BAST*RDS!!!!!!!!!!!!
@ Anonymous.. Shoplifting isn't the answer.. but I can see where you are coming from, because if I was left without money and couldn't afford a meal, then not many options are left..Put it this way, I would not let my kids starve! I've heard some really bad sh*t about these work programs and sanctioning people's benefits. The Government are also to blame.. and if they want to cut down on crime, then scrap this bollocks by stopping people's benefits for God sake.. On the other hand too, I think the advisor's should use their brains and judge these sanctions realistically. A genuine mistake or mishap is just that.. Is it any wonder that people are committing benefit fraud.. The UK Government are indeed morons!
ReplyDeleteI'll tell it how it is. The DWP, along with boltonwise and Seetec, will all blame each other and pass the buck. I'm very dubious about all this benefit sanctioning, and have a distinct feeling that it is done intentionally. As an advisor myself, you get to know your clients, and you get to know which clients try and pull the wool over your eyes. It sounds to me that the gentleman in this post had genuinely made a trivial mistake, and is now suffering the consequences. Like a number of you have already stated on this thread, it doesn't sit well that a charity is involved in forcing hardship on to someone. Especially when times are as hard as they are right now. If this is benefit reform, then maybe I need to train as a prison officer because I'm pretty sure the Government will need to throw up more prison's!
ReplyDeleteAll this doesn't surprise me one bit. These work programs are a load of crap. It's a money spinner!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ReplyDeleteSo this is the benefits reform then? Stopping people's money? I'd be out stealing if they left me without money, and in court, I'd tell the judge why - because of the Governments reform. And they moaned about the riots? LMFAO!
ReplyDeleteI think that the DWP do need to clamp down on benefit scroungers. But these work programs are going too far in my opinion and I think that the rules are doing charities like these no favours, because they will sanction the wrong person's benefits and get slated all over the internet. ( which looks like what has happened here ) To persecute genuine people on benefits is ridiculous. If this gentleman had missed a few appointments without genuine reason, then fair enough. But to get his benefits suspended for a time mix-up is just taking the piss. Maybe charities might learn their lesson by taking funding for this ridiculous scheme the Government has put in to place. I've seen these work programs because my daughters boyfriend is on one after being made redundant, and the advisor spoke to him like he was in year 1 at school. Here's hoping the guy gets his money sorted before the big freeze next week.
ReplyDeleteWe only have this persons word that missing one appointment is why he was Sanctioned, perhaps it could be for more than this.If it isnt then Boltonwise should be the ones retracting the Sanction.
ReplyDeleteDont turn up late and dont make any silly mistakes and you will be fine on the programs.
It is easy for everyone to slate Boltonwise and other providers but they are following rules and guidelines, if people break the rules then they are within their rights as a provider to sanction the person, dont give them the chance, turn up on time and dont forget anything.
@ Anonymous. You then tip up and buy him some gas for his meter then? ALL these work programs are a load of crap. The advisor's are pig ignorant - probably because they are bullied by the Government to inflict hardship etc etc etc.
ReplyDeleteHe missed 1 appointment because the idiots at boltonwise changed some of the times over the Christmas period. I get sick and tired of people defending organisations that aren't approachable. This is a site for prisoners families and ex offenders and admittedly it is not just boltonwise hosting these work programs. There are other orgs too that do them. But by sanctioning people's money, don't the Government realise that if they inflict hardship, then the crime rate will go up? Silly question really because the Government live in their own little world. My advice to the guy who has had his money stopped is - add a SKI on the end of your name mate, and master the Polish lingo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I've always said that the Government were too soft concerning benefits, but what these work programs need to get in to their thick skulls is, not everyone is a fu*king scrounger and do you think we enjoy sitting with advisor's rambling on? My advisor is a young kid and has the personality of a brick. I've been out of work for 14 months due to redundancy but I'm another British statistic who gets elbowed out of the way by our foreign friends. The majority of Bolton factories are 70, 80% Polish.. I don't go to boltonwise, I go to The Workshop in Bolton which is as equally mundane..Thanx for giving us a voice on this subject.. cheers
ReplyDeleteI personally know a guy who intentionally 'gets' himself in to prison because life on the out for him is 'too much'. What I'm trying to say is, there are vulnerable members in our communities, that if their money is sanctioned ( suspended) then they will not think twice about replacing that money illegally. I agree with some of you, that there are those who have no intentions of finding work and maybe the Government think that these work programs are ideal to kick start people. Wrong. The UK is beyond rehabilitation. Manners are by the wayside and parenting is a lot to be desired. I once was asked by an 8 year old child, why I worked. She couldn't understand that I worked for a living, which lets face it, is worrying. I'm not saying the gentleman in this story would commit crime to survive, but many in his situation would and that's a fact. If I was benefits and they were sanctioned for a genuine mistake and I couldn't find work, I would take from a supermarket to feed my children. Simple as that. @ Anonymous. You obviously work for boltonwise right? I understand that these work programs are strict, but what you fail to understand is, the rules have left a human being at rock bottom. Sometimes, I have a problem defining the word, 'charity' when I come across these stories. By the way. I also know this man personally and yes, he is a genuine guy. My friend attends, The Workshop, in Bolton. They are equally strict. I've heard a lot recently about benefit sanctions and having been in prison myself, I just laugh at the Governments attempt to force people in to work because trust me, the way the economic climate is going, you are better off in prison. So benefit sanctioning in the long run will not work. Maybe the Government should have used the sanctioning impact regarding immigration rules huh?
ReplyDelete@ The boltonwise fan.. People know that the work program rules are strict, so therefore why would people put themselves in a situation that would leave them without money? I read that people do not have to sign up for these work programs. Then I read that if they don't, they get their money suspended! So, the DWP claim that the work programs aren't mandatory - that's why clients have to sign a contract - but if you don't want to attend the work program, you get your benefits sanctioned? I'd say it's a case of the DWP taking the piss!
ReplyDeleteIf the rules and regulations of these work programs are that tight and strict, then why would a charity take on the scheme? Ah, that's right, it's a five letter word.... MONEY!!!! :-)
ReplyDeleteDON'T SIGN FOR WORK PROGRAMMES - THEY ARE ILLEGAL
ReplyDeletehttp://www.workprogramme.org.uk/201108151640/jobcentre-plus-forces-illegal-work-programme-sanctions.html
Copy and paste the link above. Don't let these organistaions profit from your loss!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Work programmes will be a short-lived scheme. A friend of mine attends The Workshop, in Farnworth, and they are closing shortly, which means those from, Farnworth, will have to travel to the Bolton-based one. If the Workshop in Farnworth, who host a work programme is closing, then what does that tell you?
ReplyDeleteNo offence to boltonWise, but I remember clearly when I visited their organisation some years ago, they used to assist vulnerable people and hard to reach groups in finding work.
ReplyDeleteWhat I cannot understand is, work training schemes who fund the Government work programmes, will present their rules and regulations and I agree that the rules are insane in some instances. Many people can be late if they rely on public transport, so to suspend someone's benefit for this reason, is in my opinion, rather sick and twisted to deliberately leave someone without money. Families are struggling enough as it is. But why would a charity take on a contract knowing that the Government will inevitably inflict hardship on people? Surely, dealing with hard to reach communities, this charity would indeed have known that benefit sanctioning at some point would have been inevitable. I think it's absolutely disgraceful that a charity would take on a contract that could well turn out to be illegal. It all balls down to the same old, same old, as long as their wallets are full, then screw the rest of us!
Hmm.. The advisor's are paid to do a job. It's the Department of Work and Pension's who have dished out these rules.. But I am also bewildered as to why a reputable organisation would entertain these useless work programmes.
ReplyDeleteThe reason I am writing this, is because I too am on a work programme. ( Not at boltonWise )
I was a sales assistant for 6 years until the well known store closed down. I'm not thick, I'm not dense, but the work programme makes me feel humiliated. Half of the advisor's are 20 years younger than me, and think they know what is best for us. I hate going. Don't get me wrong, my advisor is a lovely young girl, I have no issue with her, but the whole work programme thing and signing-on makes me feel like a scrounger and a scrounger I'm not. I've been unemployed for about 13 months and this is the longest I have been out of work.
It's a simple case of the right hand doesn't know what the left is doing! The work program advisor's can sanction your benefit because they send the info over to the Jobcentre Plus. They then take the info from the work program advisor as red, and hey presto, you can't pay your bills because the ******** have stopped your benefit payment. For how long depends on the Jobcentre Plus. But whilst the suspension is in place, many people are borrowing money off door-step lenders and payday loan companies. I know what I am talking about because my JSA was sanctioned and I resorted to getting a few loans that I cannot pay back..... Do these well intentioned people who run the work programs support this?
ReplyDeleteits the governments fault not the charities. The government are making people worse off and it will get worse.
ReplyDelete@ Caroline Dickinson.
ReplyDeleteI read somewhere that a woman from down south is suing the DWP under the human rights act. I'll try and find the link. It isn't over benefit sanctioning but it is to do with her having to work for a company for 6 weeks for nothing, or her benefits will be stopped. But by her working for nothing under some other bollocks of a work programme, it works out far much less than the minimum wage and you are not guaranteed employment after the placement. If she wins, then it will put a whole new spin on all this benefit sanctioning and the rest of the work program tripe. It's to do with slave labour and she's taking it to the European court of human rights. So for all the tyrant advisor's who are advising the Jobcentre plus to sanction benefit payments, they could well end up unemployed themselves shortly. I think this thread will be one of many ludicrous stories of benefit sanctioning. All I can suggest is to put an appeal in asap if your payments get suspended. @Gail, I'm sorry you have had to resort to lending considering the Government are hell-bent on advising people on debt - why bother advising people on debt when they are forcing people in to it? As for boltonwise, it is just unfortunate that the person featured in the post won't put up with any crap and is prepared to fight his benefit sanction. What next? They will be sanctioning pensioners and their pension credits for not turning up for coffee mornings at Help The Aged!
It isn't the advisor's fault! A pal of mine works as an advisor for a work programme scheme, and she is often put under pressure by the bosses of these schemes to be more stricter. So the man in this post needed to speak to the work program manager/ess. And yes, of course it is to do with funding and lining their own pockets. Name me a chief Executive of a charity who isn't quids in?
ReplyDeleteThank God someone has wrote about this work programme shambles! the advisor's are fully to blame, Carmen, because in my humble opinion, they need to use their heads and establish the difference between a phoney and someone who makes a genuine mistake! It is the advisor who pops something on to the computer, which then makes it way over to another advisor at the Job Centre, who then suspends the clients benefit! But when someone kicks off about their benefits being suspended, the Job Centre say it's the work programme advisor's decision, and the work programme advisor says it's down to the Job Centre. So all in all, it's a joke! Even the Prime Minister is called, Mickey Mouse, so don't expect the Work & Pension's Dept to be any different! The people who fund boltonWise's work programme scheme are, SEETEC. Do you think that SEETEC would make such strict rules if they weren't making a profit from this farce? It's all a wallet builder and whilst their wallets are putting on weight, they couldn't give two sh!t's about the job seeker!
ReplyDeleteWell said Darren!!! Someone, somewhere, is indeed making a nice little profit out of these daft work programmes!!! Changing people's attitudes on working for a living is one thing, but forcing them in to work, will not work!!! I can see yet another Government FAIL in the pipeline!!!
ReplyDeleteFor a charity to be involved with sanctioning people's benefits is beyond belief -
ReplyDeleteI too agree with Darren's post. Although it is the Dept of Work and Pension's that suspend people's benefits, work program advisor's set the wheels in motion for a sanction to happen.
ReplyDeleteSounds like the advisor's should go and work for the Probation Service LOL! It's almost like you are on probation because you are on job seekers allowance! Actually it's a disgraceful scheme and I hope it gets abolished! Yeah, I do agree that some people take the mickey and can't be bothered to turn up for these appointments, but when there are people who do turn up and may be a few minutes late or make a genuine mistake, then yeah, I hope the work programs end up on their arse!
ReplyDeleteI am a jobseeker who is on a work program... If advisors dont find us a job.... do their wages get sanctioned??????
ReplyDeleteI can't comment on this work programme but the one my brother goes to is garbage. In fact, they kinda humiliate people
ReplyDeleteWith a bit of luck these daft work programmes will lose their funding. I'm not being funny but I also have had to sit there and search for jobs that don't exist. I look for work at home everyday scouring the internet and looking at the newspaper. I dont need an advisor to damn well show me how to do it!!!!!!!!!!
ReplyDeleteI have been referred to here { Boltonwise } and I hope I don't get the bitch who sanctioned this guys money! Sorry, but sanctioning people's benefits isn't the way to go. Grrrrrrrrrr
ReplyDeleteRUBBISH RUBBISH RUBBISH - they should stop money grabbing and be a charity. A charity DOES NOT inflict hardship on to a person. SHAME ON YOU
ReplyDeleteThe only way these work programs are still running is because of a loophole. They are illegal but because of a little bent clause in the contract, they are allowed to operate. My feelings on these work programs are pretty much like the rest of your readers.
ReplyDeleteIs the charity struggling for funding or something? It would be the only reason why they'd take on this Government initiative, because if it was my charity, to take on a contract that can suspend people's benefits would be a no, no, for me!!!
ReplyDeleteOMG thank G that someone has brought these lot in to the fore-front - well done
ReplyDeletethis does not surprise me one bit. its a ******** disgrace whats is happenin right now. Jobseekers are being exploited havin to work for piss all and if they dont, they have their benefits stopped. All this is CONSERVATIVE PARTY robbery!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ReplyDelete